tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post263158108158707460..comments2024-01-07T19:22:21.305-06:00Comments on All write with coffee...: Writing Feedback - taking critcismAnn Elle Altmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02192162600274764681noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-91455582975422356352010-04-11T11:44:24.464-05:002010-04-11T11:44:24.464-05:00I loved this article, Ann. First, the funniest th...I loved this article, Ann. First, the funniest thing is that from the two reviews, I know which pieces the reviewers were talking about because I've read BOTH of your pieces they discuss. And my thoughts/reviews of both were vastly different. I loved the murderous wife, but I don't think I have to empathyze, sympathize or even like a particular character. I just have to enjoy the journey. As for Jayne and the structure that story took, I found it completely engaging because the dialogue was so good. You managed to pull it off within the confines of a structure that, let's just be honest, is very difficult. You pulled it off and I remember being so proud!<br /><br />As for reviews. I think one must take reviews as a whole, not piecemeal. If multiple reviewers bring up the same issues, that's where the warning bell in your head should start to ring. <br /><br />And the most important thing for a writer, I believe, is to get to that place of discernment where they can sift through the reviews, take the advice that really works for the piece they are writing, as well as their voice--and then trash the rest.<br /><br />Taking every bit of critical advice can be the downfall of the writer and the drowning of their individual voice. Once a writer gets to that place, the world of editing is a vastly different one than when we first began putting our work up for review.<br /><br />But, my Oh!My! those early days of getting reviews made one feel like chum in the vicious, shark-infested waters, did they not? Ha!<br /><br />I used to physically start trembling when opening up a review. But somewhere along the line, I found my voice and my comfort zone. From there, sprang a feeling of self-confidence in my own writing and that's a wonderful place to be. It is what I wish for every writer.<br /><br />It's a journey, but it's worth every moment, every review, every lambasting, every bit of 'tough love'.<br /><br />And can I also add--I love my fellow writers. They have given me so much and my only hope is to give at least as much in return.<br /><br />(you are among those writers who have a special place in my writing life!)<br /><br />Jeni ;)Jeni Deckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06389728975568397450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-12881575160091833232010-04-09T10:13:03.323-05:002010-04-09T10:13:03.323-05:00Great post, Ann - thanks for sharing and reminding...Great post, Ann - thanks for sharing and reminding me that we're not alone in receiving critiques whatever stage of our writing we're in! <br /><br />I've got all the usual suspects... but the harshest one I received was from a professional reader who gave me very thorough, helpful and honest feedback -- but it was quite brutal. Now, I know she was doing it to make me a better writer, but at the time I burst into tears and wanted to give up!<br /><br />It's so hard not to take things personally, even if they are well intended!Talli Rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780882465745107715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-78942961497820845432010-04-09T08:34:39.664-05:002010-04-09T08:34:39.664-05:00Patricia Stoltey, wow, that was harsh and not at a...Patricia Stoltey, wow, that was harsh and not at all helpful. I guess we can learn from remarks like that but that's crazy.<br /><br />Charmaine Clancy, I love my online critique. In the last few years, my writing has improved greatly.<br /><br /><br />Elisabeth, yes. I'm always polite to all those who write negative reviews. Most negative reviews are meant well. I like to quote from the movie Madagascar, "Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave."<br /><br />Kimberly Franklin, yes. I think negative are good. Thanks for the comments.<br /><br />KarenG, that's exactly it. I don't expect everyone to like my genre or stories. I'm not a fan of some best-selling authors and I doubt they'll care.<br /><br />TirzahLaughs, oh crap, Tirz, that was me. ;) I've read you're work and I know that you write strong words. But, I also know you write good words and great poems. Well, it may not count for much but you've got a fan in me.<br /><br />Linda, that's a good idea. If people can't write well, don't take their opinions too seriously. If you don't like what they write, you can't expect them to like what you write.<br /><br />Lorel Clayton, thank you so much for that! I'm glad you liked the series. I'm going to do one more post today about really bad comments.<br /><br />Laura Marcella, you've said it exactly. Good and bad are both needed. Now, I prefer the bad more than the good.<br /><br />Christi Goddard, What!? That's crazy. I think that person may not like your novels but don't give up. If you like your MC's voice, someone else will also.<br /><br />Rayna, yes. Even if they took the time to be negative, they obviously felt it was worth the time. Sometimes I am guilty of not spending much effort on manuscripts that I don't feel are ready for publishing.<br /><br />Jan Morrison, it's frustrating when that happens but I think that happens with every artist. I think if a person wants to give a bad opinion, they should do so quietly but usually the strong ones rarely do.<br /><br />Jim Murdoch,that's sad that you've not received much criticism either way. I've read one of your poems and personally, I was touched by it. Perhaps because you've written so much people don't feel they need to respond but it still is nice once and a while.<br /><br />Thank you everyone for your comments.<br /><br />annAnn Elle Altmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02192162600274764681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-70623810977517928972010-04-09T07:45:32.980-05:002010-04-09T07:45:32.980-05:00Surprisingly little considering I've been at t...Surprisingly little considering I've been at this game for over thirty years. The majority comes under the general header "Not for us" with no reason given. When there are reasons mostly they've been valid. I don't do plots for example and so my slice-of-life stories don't appeal to a lot of people. That doesn't make them bad, just not for them.<br /><br />I would also say I've not had a huge amount of praise aimed in my general direction over the years either. People will say they like something but aren't crazy on being drawn why even when I know they're not just being polite; I can usually tell the difference.<br /><br />It's always bothered me that I've been a bit on my own and left to trust my own instincts. Looking back on early stuff I can see improvement and that's the main thing.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-41177636685339994432010-04-09T07:09:40.695-05:002010-04-09T07:09:40.695-05:00You can give someone very difficult criticism if i...You can give someone very difficult criticism if it is done respectfully - if you attack the person then that isn't criticism - it is agression. I am good with receiving good constructive crits but I'm not interested in hearing personal attacks. I also do not understand a criticism that includes a dislike for the genre such as the first one - if you don't like this genre take yourself off the job. The worst criticism I received was for a play - the reviewer hated us, hated the play and as it happened really hated the artistic director. He went so far as to call our play ruinous for theatre in Nova Scotia! He hated the song titles. His piece was so vitrolic that people thought he was crazy and or personally involved with one of us. It wasn't helpful I can assure you. It took me a long time to get over it and it hurt our play's progress (small city). When I ask for feedback - I state exactly what I want - I never say 'just read this and tell me what you think' as that is not helpful to me or to the reader.Jan Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01771180344305042855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-21105613851486634732010-04-09T01:54:01.049-05:002010-04-09T01:54:01.049-05:00Another great post!
Detailed criticism I would we...Another great post!<br /><br />Detailed criticism I would welcome, even if I don't agree with it. At least it shows someone has read and taken the trouble to comment.<br /><br />~ RaynaNatashahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00481081735923606868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-61661836824331634002010-04-08T23:30:04.085-05:002010-04-08T23:30:04.085-05:00I've been told my writing is good in small dos...I've been told my writing is good in small doses, but once I have pages of my 'voice' then I'll lose readers who don't 'get' it.Christi Goddardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590491851753709622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-3733197711925439382010-04-08T22:26:50.420-05:002010-04-08T22:26:50.420-05:00I handle constructive criticism okay because I exp...I handle constructive criticism okay because I expect it (and need it!) when I'm in a workshop. But negative criticism- the mean kind- is very disheartening. But I try not to take it personally because it's silly to think everyone is going to like my writing. It just won't happen. But I like what Fran said- when hearing the same things over again, it's definitely something to change. Writing helps us develop thick skins, that's for sure!Laura S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13934230198562773803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-5088323742761989622010-04-08T20:32:35.085-05:002010-04-08T20:32:35.085-05:00I've loved this entire series of posts on feed...I've loved this entire series of posts on feedback--thanks Ann!<br /><br />I notice with many of the bad review examples you give, it's all personal taste. Someone is squeamish about murders, or they just don't like the genre. There's nothing you can do to change that, which is why it's so important to get unbiased critiques, especially from people who generally like your type of book. You're never going to get a good response on your chick lit piece from someone who only likes 19th century poetry. That said, it's also true that you can write something bad (I have stacks of the stuff) and it's good when someone tells you that so you can learn.Lorel Claytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06749366331989131894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-16355336795707106162010-04-08T19:53:20.214-05:002010-04-08T19:53:20.214-05:00I know my writing can improve and so if I receive ...I know my writing can improve and so if I receive honest criticism, I hope I am woman enough to listen and learn (that has come with age, I must admit). <br /><br />I do not share my WIP with everyone, though. Some of my "friends", when they found I was finally taking my writing seriously, have developed negative attitudes about the whole idea of anyone wanting to be published. These folks can stand in line to buy the finished novel (and no discount from me, thank you very much LOL).<br /><br />Criticism is always swallowed best when it is thoughtfully presented--not sugar-coated per se, but what Mother used to call "constructive criticism", not blatant negativity.<br /><br />A final thought about online criticism (such as I find when reading reviews for a possible new addition to my TBR mountain): if the reviewer/critic cannot spell or construct a grammatically correct sentence--albeit an informal one--I highly discount their opinion. Harsh? Perhaps.<br /><br />Fewer people tend to be as free-wheeling with praise these days as in times past and it is such a shame. Whatever happened to "if you can't say anything nice, then it is best to stay silent?" <br /><br />So, if I am critical of another person's work, I also try to be courteous enough of their feelings to find something positive to say as well.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12794760097129715871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-20019514925111508062010-04-08T19:33:38.743-05:002010-04-08T19:33:38.743-05:00Actually on a review site that I no longer got to,...Actually on a review site that I no longer got to, I had this lovely woman who reviewed every single thing I posted with basically the same review. I finally memorized it.<br /><br />'You suk. You'd do the world a favor if you quit now because you'll never be successful. Who writes this kind of crap?'<br /><br />It really hurt the first few times. Then, since the reviews were more or less the same each time, I decide she just must be nuts.<br /><br />Oh and she always spelled suck as suk.<br /><br />Hah. I really hated that woman.<br /><br />LOL.<br /><br />Some crits I agree with. Some I disagree with. The only ones I object to are the mean ones for meanness sake.<br /><br />TirzTirzahLaughshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06505559474373463632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-10329171650329932292010-04-08T19:31:51.234-05:002010-04-08T19:31:51.234-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.TirzahLaughshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06505559474373463632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-84467604580752336002010-04-08T19:08:11.601-05:002010-04-08T19:08:11.601-05:00Or it could be that it just absolutely is not thei...Or it could be that it just absolutely is not their cup of tea. And the next person will love it.Karen Jones Gowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01153821980625034810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-26350590942201570672010-04-08T18:23:00.640-05:002010-04-08T18:23:00.640-05:00It's probably weird that I love when my crit b...It's probably weird that I love when my crit buddies point out stuff that's wrong with my writing, right? But they are honest and that's what I love about them. It will only help me and my writing in the long run. Criticism is a great! As long as it's not mean spirited. :)Kimberly Franklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13957037411750752950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-26626552965937827222010-04-08T17:52:30.849-05:002010-04-08T17:52:30.849-05:00Some of the criticisms you quote from here seem to...Some of the criticisms you quote from here seem to me to say more about the reviewer than the writing reviewed. It's important to bear that one in mind when considering critiques. <br /><br />Once in a writing workshop, one of our number, a brilliant poet took umbrage when a few people suggested ways in which she might tweak her poem. <br /><br />I find myself unsympathetic to people who will not even consider another person's perspective on changes that might be made. On the other hand, I also remember a suggestion that Olga Lorenzo, an Australian writer, made to our writers group one day.<br /><br />It's like your on board a liner about to take off to sea. You stand on the deck waving to those on shore who've come to say farewell. <br /><br />Someone throws you a bouquet. You catch it and you wave it in the air by way of acknowledgment. By the time the ship is is out to sea, you take a good look at that bouquet. If you decide it's not for you, then you throw it overboard.<br /><br />This is a useful way of dealing with criticism I think: you take what's useful to you, what resonates, what might be helpful and chuck the rest. <br /><br />Thanks for a terrific post.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-88753180309623910172010-04-08T17:33:21.897-05:002010-04-08T17:33:21.897-05:00oops left the last comment signed in with the wron...oops left the last comment signed in with the wrong account - tis just me :-)Charmaine Clancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06642615452680721583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-17474428555316008022010-04-08T17:31:58.010-05:002010-04-08T17:31:58.010-05:00I haven't put a lot of work out there yet, I d...I haven't put a lot of work out there yet, I did start sharing a first draft of Dog Show Detective with an online critique group, but then I realised there were changes needed that I already knew about, so I should work on it more first.<br />From the critiques I did receive, I wrote out notes to use when I edit. I find most people give critiques with love and genuinely want to help. It's up to you then to decide which advise will move your narrative forward and which ones you need to discard.<br />I think the critiques you received show you're writing is definitely promising! :-)Charmaine Clancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18059559142070140041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-77738722085965460262010-04-08T17:30:56.853-05:002010-04-08T17:30:56.853-05:00I've received all the usual rejections from ed...I've received all the usual rejections from editors and agents over the years, but the two critiquing comments that stuck in my mind were:<br /><br />1. (This one almost made me stop writing in my 20s) -- "This is ridiculous."<br /><br />2. (One I received a couple of years ago from a critique group member when I tried a first chapter for a YA mystery) -- "This is predictable and boring."<br /><br />I'm much tougher now and don't take critiques and reviews too seriously (although I try to learn from them), so #2 didn't bother me nearly as much as #1 did.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-11944086130920095032010-04-08T17:15:28.662-05:002010-04-08T17:15:28.662-05:00Fran, I agree. If something keeps coming up again ...Fran, I agree. If something keeps coming up again and again in your feedback, change it.<br /><br />Jemi, well, at least they noticed it. It looks horrible when an editor, agent, publisher or buyer notices.<br /><br />Arlee, I'm just talking about the constructive but negative feedback. I'm going to talk about the bad and worthless feedback tomorrow. I think you're right, those that go after who the writer is rather than how he/she writes is not helpful.<br /><br />annAnn Elle Altmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02192162600274764681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-54195093703419071112010-04-08T16:55:48.821-05:002010-04-08T16:55:48.821-05:00Are you talking about bad critiquing or a negative...Are you talking about bad critiquing or a negative response to what has been written? Criticism to a great extent is quite subjective. The examples that you give, while written in a style that would not be worthy of a literary journal or newspaper criticism, do reflect valid problems for <b>that</b> reader and others with the same sensibilities. What doesn't appeal to one may be different from another's perspective. Perhaps I've missed your point, but I don't consider any opinion of writing bad unless it's merely an ad hominem attack upon the author.<br /><br />Interesting topic for reflection.<br />Lee<br /><a href="http://tossingitout.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-boggled-blogging-from-to-z-april.html" rel="nofollow">Blogging From A to Z April Challenge</a>Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-40356510743210907992010-04-08T16:51:45.341-05:002010-04-08T16:51:45.341-05:00I'm not that far along my writing journey. I d...I'm not that far along my writing journey. I do have 2 crit buddies who are honest but kind. Still stings when they point out what I should have caught in the first place!Jemi Fraserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02214408467456320167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4237439668554338567.post-20630722055054226462010-04-08T15:51:53.598-05:002010-04-08T15:51:53.598-05:00I think what's most revealing is when you rece...I think what's most revealing is when you receive the same kinds of comments time after time. That's the time to think uh-oh. Need to change .... My downfall used to be adverbs which I used continually, remorselessly and usually uselessly. Now it's long sentences which no one can follow because there are so many clauses in which I don't really say an awful lot but which do go on and on and on.Fran Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07935088780461825341noreply@blogger.com